All that matters is that I'm Dallas and everything is Gintama.
Putting this under a read more mostly cause I’m just bitching and I don’t want it cluttering peep’s dashes.
gintama is great except of its yoshiwara arcs. women are being huge victims and then after a short trip to the man’s (who literally destroyed their home) past they forgive him.
im so mad right now
hold up yo
the thing about Hinowa forgiving Hosen is that she, in the ends, wins.
Hosen is an asshole no doubt about that. He literally tore out the tendons out of Hinowa’s feet just because she wanted to raise a child. He imprisoned her, took away her clients, and tried so hard to break her because he was vulnerable to loving her.
But she wins in the end when she sees him dying. She always smiles. She refuses to cry in front of him. When she forgives him it’s because it’s not worth Hinowa’s time to be bitter or angry like he was towards her, especially because he’s close to the edge of death. She’s certainly not weak; she’s spent her entire life fighting her own private battles (a mental battle, really) against a Yato who is so intent on crushing her because she is a sign of hope for the Yoshiwaran women. And after Hosen dies, they take a new step towards building a new town where the women won’t be suffering.
Forgiving people who wronged you is really not a sign of badly written characters and neither is it nonsensical. Hinowa is naturally optimistic which clashes against Jiraia’s cynicism.
It’s easy to simplify the arc but Hinowa is not just a victim. She’s a survivor. She doesn’t mentally break down from the Yoshiwaran cage ruled by the strongest Yato unlike 99% of the other courtesans in the city, she is a fighter in her own quiet defiance and her refusal to cave into the system
Same thing goes for Tsukuyo forgiving her master… Like Hosen, Jiraia was also very twisted and extremely damaged. Yeah, she forgave him, but also people seem to forget that she delivered the last kunai to Jiraia that would eventually kill him. She made a decision to hurt her master, the guy who saved her from a life of prostitution and allowed her to protect Hinowa, the person she loved most.
sometimes strength to move on and to let go of the past is harder than internalizing resentment and anger. When Tsukuyo forgives Jiraia, both Gintoki and Hattori see that as a sign of strength not as weakness. She’s definitely not blind to the fact that Jiraia is deeply flawed. u have to take into consideration Jiraia trained Tsukuyo - that’s the bond that Gintoki and Shoyou also shared in the past. i think if Shoyou did something similar to what Jiraia did i honestly couldn’t imagine Gintoki not forgiving Shoyou when he was on the verge of dying…
Both Tsukuyo and Hinowa are not simplistic characters and I really do think you should rewatch both the Red Spider and Yoshiwara in Flames arc
in all Gintama arcs, there’s nuances and subtleties to everything, Sorachi in my opinion doesn’t write bad female characters. i think context is very important, on the surface it may seem like they are weak but there is so much underlying stuff lying underneath their actions.
i hope this explains why i don’t think the yoshiwaran arcs are bad
i think sorachi writes great female characters too and its one of the reasons i like gintama so much
hinowa forgiving hosen didnt bug me as much, because its how she acts. shes a forgiving person by nature and wise enough to realise that there is no point in fussing over a man who will soon die. if it was just that it would be great.
the first thing thats bothering me is hinowa as a child. a child whos being abused every day wouldnt smile and worry about their abusers problems. a child is not wise or mature enough for that and honestly my first thought was that this child was suffering from some kind of mental illness. that scene was used to explain why hinowa didnt get mad at hosen in his dying moments which is why i think the whole arc was a weak considering how great sorachi can write women and children.
tsukuyo is not hinowa. shes not wise enough to forgive her abuser even in his dying moments. also the problem here was the timing. she threw the kunai right before jiraia started narrating his reason behind his acts. she looks ready to burry him herself and at that moment she wouldnt go out of her way to make sure he doesnt leave this world without any regrets. after the narration though its almost as if she regrets her actions and forgives him, something she wouldnt do without the narration
and last but not least of all the arcs ive seen so far (i just finished the yoshiwara in flames arc) gintoki looked the most pissed in this one. he was mad at the others too but this was the first one he was ready to rip the guys neck with his teeth if he had to. after tsukuyo delivers the finishing blow he doesnt talk much like he does in the previous arcs, meaning he didnt forgive jiraia
i think yoshiwara arcs could be at least represented better. i dont think yoshiwara women would forgive their abuser just because he gave a nice speech
I would like to wade into this to say that abuse doesn’t always manifest in neat, clearly definable ways. I think Hinowa found and desperately held onto the one scrap of power she felt she ‘owned’. The strength to make sure that Hosen didn’t break her.
As someone who has experienced a horrifying level of abuse from someone that was supposed to love and protect me (my mother), I found solace in small forms of resistance like that. I clung desperately to the thought that I would not let her break me, no matter her best efforts. There’s also subtle ways of resisting your captor that for the most part fly right under their radar.
Do you know how hard it is to let go of the level of pain, anger, despair (especially if that’s primarily what you’ve known for the first 20 years of your life)? I’m only beginning to now and it’s been close to 2 years since I moved out (I’m an exception, apparently most people don’t make it out of what I’ve lived through so well adjusted). It is the hardest fucking thing to even consider forgiving your abuser for all the shit that they put you through. I almost can’t imagine how hard it will be to actually arrive at the point where I can start to forgive her.
Sorachi-sensei gets how complicated people are and how he wrote Hinowa is believable and authentic (even if I can’t personally relate to her strength of character, yet). Strength comes in all forms and packages and Gorilla-sensei is all about showing that. You do Hinowa a disservice by discounting how strong she is for keeping her soul untarnished while surviving Hosen.
I’m making plans to (finally) get my Gintama tattoo in a few weeks. One of my ankles will soon be covered with the design from Gintoki’s kimono.